With over $41 million in lifetime earnings, Daniel Negreanu is the second winnings live tournament poker player of all-time, only surpassed by the $45 million of Justin Bonomo. He’s also a long-time ambassador for PokerStars, the world’s leading online poker site. And he has as much credibility as anyone in the poker community.
It's 100% legal to play online poker in the united states, it's also 100% legal to use a vpn to access poker sites that don't except usa players. TOA to play is a different story. Most of the time, it keeps all funds in the account as well. Other sites, including 888 Poker and WSOP.com have similar VPN policies. All three of these operators will launch in PA before long. Using a VPN from out of state to play poker in PA will end badly. Plus, the same operators are moving into most online poker markets in the US.
But, Steve Ruddock of OnlinePokerReport writes, some consider “Kid Poker’s” views on using a virtual private network (VPN) to illegally play online poker in the United States are wrong.
What is Negreanu Arguing?
Daniel Negreanu was the long-time face of PokerStars prior to stepping down earlier this year. Before leaving the online gambling giant, “DNegs” toed the company line. He defended the site’s actions and would never suggest anything that violates PokerStars rules, such as playing with a VPN.
That was, of course, until the wealthy poker pro resigned from PokerStars. He now has a bit of a different tone. On Twitter, he recently argued that using a VPN to play online poker in a jurisdiction where it’s illegal is all fine and dandy. It’s not cheating, he argues.
He wasn’t the only one who shares those same views. Negreanu asked his Twitter followers if they felt playing under a VPN is cheating. Of the more than 15,000 votes, most agreed with the poker legend.
Why a Need for a VPN?
August 15, 2011 is considered the most costly day in poker history. On that date, dubbed “Black Friday,” the US Department of Justice cracked down on the major poker sites operating in the US and banned them from doing business in the country.
That forced sites such as PokerStars to back away from the US market, leaving only smaller, less profitable poker sites to accept American players. What that caused was it forced online poker pros to either move to another country or us a VPN, which spoofs the location of where you’re at.
So, if you’re located in, say, Los Angeles, you can use a VPN so it makes you appear to be located in a different country where online poker is legal. By doing so, you can beat the system and play on poker sites that don’t accept US players.
If you get caught using a VPN, however, you will be banned from the poker site, most likely for life. And you might never receive your account balance. So, it’s quite risky.
But is it Cheating or Wrong?
We know using a VPN is against every online poker site’s rules and can lead to banishment. But is it morally wrong or cheating? That’s for you to decide as it’s a matter of opinion.
Can You Use A Vpn To Play Online Poker
Steve Ruddock, who writes for OnlinePokerReport.com, called out Negreanu. “Kid Poker” said that the poker sites shouldn’t police VPN use. Instead, he suggests, if the US government cares so much about stopping online gambling, they should “police” the industry.
“Why should a company outside of their jurisdiction be held to policing something they aren’t morally opposed to,” he argues.
Ruddock disagrees and compares that argument to a liquor store refusing to card customers because they aren’t opposed to underage drinking. He also argues that using a VPN is, in a sense, cheating because, as he claims, most of the players who would use a VPN are “good players” and that makes the games on sites such as PokerStars more difficult for the recreational poker players.
Table Of Contents
The poker world hates a cheater or a scammer, but over the weekend, Daniel Negreanu brought up an interesting question about where the community draws the line in regards to one issue of 'cheating' in particular.
With poker's Black Friday, the rug was pulled out from under many poker players making a living or a supplemental income playing online poker. For some of those individuals, relocating to another country was in the realm of possibilities. Many did so to continue to have access to the sites no longer available for players residing inside the borders of America.
Negreanu: 'There really is no victim here outside of the player using the VPN when he gets caught.'
Those who could not leave had a tough choice between quitting online poker, playing on unregulated sites that couldn't compete with the volume or guarantees on the now-forbidden sites, or using a VPN — a virtual private network — to break the rules and gain access to the same sites as before.
Against the rules? Yes. But is it 'cheating' or 'unethical'? These are the questions that the former long-time PokerStars ambassador brought to the fore in his tweet on Saturday that spurred quite a bit of discussion among the community.
The VPN Debate
Negreanu kicked off some discussion by comparing the use of VPNs to conceal your real location with some other technically illegal poker-playing activities, though the one on playing poker in Texas was much disputed considering its existence in a legal gray area.
It’s illegal to play poker in Texas, are those that do unethical or cheaters?
— Daniel Negreanu (@RealKidPoker)Negreanu put out a poll to gauge players' thoughts on the matter, and the results from 15,919 respondents overwhelmingly favored the opinion that playing on a VPN from the U.S. is not considered 'cheating.'
Do you consider players using a VPN to play online poker from the US to play on sites that forbid play from the US… https://t.co/WzXvNIxIGn
— Daniel Negreanu (@RealKidPoker)Players Chime In
Many players like Niall Farrell argued the act does not necessarily cheat other players, so long as they are playing on their own account.
@RealKidPoker As someone lucky enough to live somewhere where I’ve never had to face this issue; I couldn’t give a… https://t.co/yNnFniPUCY
— Niall Farrell (@Firaldo87poker)Still, others provided some fodder for the other side of the argument, namely that playing on a VPN gives players who do so an unfair advantage over those who follow the rules.
@RealKidPoker The most compelling argument I've heard that it's cheating is this: Two players both from Vegas, A an… https://t.co/uGQd5c3YHq
— Chris Kruk (@KrukPoker)Others had a problem with Negreanu's moral stance altogether, Norman Chad one of the most vocal among them:
1. When voting for Poker HOF, you say you ONLY consider the criteria; nothing more. Sounds right. 2. When Hellmuth… https://t.co/zexX5lDt4J
— Norman Chad (@NormanChad)What developed into a lengthy argument about ethics along with countless tangents, seemed mostly one about semantics. After all, there's no question that using a VPN to play from the U.S. on sites where it's both illegal and against the Terms of Service (TOS) to do so, is clearly against the rules and the law — whether you agree with said law or not.
Does that mean it's an unacceptable practice among poker players? It depends on who you ask.
Victimless Crime?
As Negreanu sees it, players who choose to deceive poker sites in regards to their physical location are simply assuming their own risk without affecting others.
'So are the other players in the tournament being 'cheated' by a player using a VPN? I don’t think so. Is the online operator being 'cheated' by this player? No. There really is no victim here outside of the player using the VPN when he gets caught. He pays the ultimate price. No one else is affected whatsoever.'
Important to just about everyone in the conversation, is the distinction between players who play via a VPN under their own account, and those who create a new 'burner' account when playing from the United States. The difference is illustrated by two marquee examples in Brian Hastings (who played not from his '$tinger88' account but under 'NoelHayes' when he reentered the online poker world in 2015 - detailed here and here) and Gordon Vayo (who played under his own '[email protected]' account from Florida via a VPN, detailed here).
You can read Negreanu's detailed arguments for why he doesn't see a problem with players choosing to use a VPN to play online from the U.S. here on his blog.
What Do You Think?
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